DAVID HSU: Tell me a little bit about this half-marathon business. What’s going on with that?

TONY MIKSANEK: I’ve been running for a number of years, which I truly enjoy, and I’ve done ten full marathons, one ultra marathon, and God knows how many half-marathons. But as I get older, I’m leaning more toward the half-marathon as the longest distance I like running.

DH: So how did this one go? Was it good?

TM: Yeah. This one was in Florida. The weather was beautiful. There were about 20,000 people, and it was at Disney World. So you run through the Cinderella Castle, you’ve got all the characters high-fiving you on the course. It’s great. I think I originally got into running as a sort of release from medical practice, where you can be outside, mindful of your surroundings and your breathing and your foot striking the pavement. Since then, it’s become just short of an obsession. A good one, a good obsession. But I’ve often thought about the similarities between running and medicine. The greatest similarity is that both endeavors require a pair of comfortable shoes because you’re on your feet all day practicing medicine. There’s also a rhythm to running, which is a very individual, personalized thing. And, of course, there’s a rhythm to our practice. The flow of taking care of patients and our style in interacting with them. In running, you have to build up a core. We call it a core of mileage that your body gets acclimated to. In practice I think that core is sort of like developing trust in the physician-patient relationship. You have to work on that. You know that saying, “trust is hard to earn but easy to lose?”

DH: Let’s talk a little bit about medical humanities. You mentioned that running was something that you did to put your head in a different space from your regular work. I assume that medical humanities would also be something that gives you a diversion from your regular work. Is that accurate?

TM: Most of my career was spent as a small town, rural area, solo family practitioner in a former coal mining town with a population of right around 8,000 people. So medical humanities, for me, for most of my life, has always been an individual thing. I read and tried to be involved in whatever peripheral way I could with medical humanities. And I did and still do derive a lot of satisfaction, enjoyment and learning from reading great literature. We can debate what the adjective “great” means when it applies to literature, but I feel there’s so much to gain from literature. When a patient comes into our office, they usually want to tell us a story. Sometimes they’re reluctant, but usually they want to tell us a story. And my belief is that most people, to be healed, need to tell that story. But equally important is they need somebody who is invested in listening to that story, that confirms their importance. and the validity of their illness or what they’re going through. And I think literature is a really great tool to help us learn how to listen intently to patients, more fully understand their stories of life and illness, and to enhance our empathy.

So again, my entry into medical humanities is probably unlike most of the people on our MedHum group. It’s mostly been kind of a solo route for a long time. Currently I’m an associate editor and a book editor for the Journal of Medical Humanities. I don’t know how far back you go with your practice, but once upon a time, the American Family Physician Journal, the AFP, had a regular column called “Diary from a Week in Practice.” And there were four contributors. I was one of them. I guess I was the token rural small-town doctor, because there was somebody from an urban practice and somebody from an academic practice. I forget what the fourth one was. And so we would take turns writing a column that was basically a chronicle of a week of practice like “what were the highlights, what were the lowlights.” I think that was important for me, because at the time, that was probably my version of reflective writing, even though it was produced in a form that would be published. You know, being a doctor is tough, albeit a wonderful, often joyful, profession. Running gave me an opportunity, I think, to kind of put myself in a place where I can sustain joy and the dedication that was required, especially being a small-town doctor where your patients are your neighbors. You run into them at church or the grocery store. The land is the connecting fabric for a small-town doctor. I mean, your kids’ friends are almost always your patients. So it’s a very vivid, organic, dynamic relationship.

DH: How big was your practice? How many patients did you have?

TM: I practiced in our town for a little over 30 years, as a solo family physician, 24/7, unless it was time for vacation or a meeting. And then, you know, I had an agreement with a couple other physicians for coverage if we were gone, but it was a very full practice. The only thing I didn’t do as a family physician was OB.

I loved to make house calls. I used to make them in my Jeep Cherokee. And I’ll never forget the first house call I made. I brought my nurse with me because I was new to town, and I didn’t really know where the address was. And we pulled up in front of this very, very small, weathered house. And I remember as they opened the door to let us in, the floor was dirt. It was a dirt floor. And having been born and raised in Chicago and then later some of the suburbs, I was dumbfounded. That was really my experience — people that were really struggling to make a living. But the dirt floor was, I mean, it sounds like an oxymoron, but it was clean. And the home was well-kept. There were a lot of eye-opening experiences being in a small town.

DH: What’s the name of the town?

TM: Benton. Illinois. Wonderful town. Great people.

DH: How did you stumble across the humanities and arts connection to medicine? Was this something that you were aware of as a student or at some point as you started working you started to realize that novels had something to do with your job? How did you make that connection working solo?

TM: I’ve always been an avid reader, as I think most physicians are. And actually, I got a head start because our medical school, the medical school I attended and where I am now a volunteer faculty in the Department of Medical Humanities, was one of the first medical schools in the country to actually have an independent medical humanities department. So as a student, I was already interested in medical humanities. I guess as a prelude to that, as an undergraduate student at the University of Chicago, we had what they called a core curriculum when that was not a popular thing. Every student, no matter what your major was, had to have competence in basically all the major disciplines. So, if you were going to be a biochemistry major, you still had to take the History of Western Civilization, Art Appreciation, etc.

I’ve always been involved with literature. Once upon a time, JAMA and the New England Journal had book review sections, and I did book reviews for those two journals. The sad thing is, they haven’t had a book review section for a number of years now. There’s no interest, I presume? I don’t know. They just kind of vanished in the night. So, during my early years of clinical practice, I was writing reviews mostly for JAMA. They would send me all kinds of books, some of which were very peripherally connected with medicine. And so I think maybe when they had a book that looked interesting, they would say, “well, we’ll just send it to Tony.” Which was great. But that was in the days even before internet. I remember I would be sitting at my kitchen table with a typewriter typing these reviews to mail to JAMA or New England Journal. And it was kind of wild. But life was so much simpler then, too, on the other hand. Anyway, I would say that medical school, a love of literature, getting involved in book reviewing from early in my career was kind of the springboard for me, into medical humanities.

DH: Can you give us a few medical humanities book titles that we can spotlight for the audience?

TM: One book that I really was impressed by was Do No Harm. There’s an aphorism in medicine, “do no harm.” That’s the title. And it was written by a neurosurgeon in England by the name of Henry Marsh. It’s a beautiful book because like the very best memoirs, he presented his vulnerability as an individual and as a physician, a surgeon, so beautifully. You couldn’t help but be moved by his sincerity. In fact, he had a line, I’m paraphrasing it, but the line was something like, “I am a vessel for my patients to pour their misery into.” And you know, on the one hand you can say, “well, that sounds a little pontificating, a little arrogant,” but on the other hand, it’s like, “isn’t that part of the job description?” So that would be one: Do No Harm. Another by a physician author is Cutting for Stone.

DH: By Abraham Verghese.

TM: He’s out at Stanford and he’s written a lot. The Tennis Player, and others, but Cutting for Stone is one of these lengthy novels that you’re reading and you’re like, “this author’s all in.” He’s not saved any good stuff for another book. It’s just all there. So that’s another one I would recommend to people.

I’m also a very big fan of Richard Selzer because first of all, most are short stories or short essays you can read in a single sitting. I’ve met him a number of times and he admits that he lies, because these are not true stories necessarily, and they may have had their genesis in some kernel of truth. So there is a lot of exaggeration and hyperbole but there’s still something that he’s able to successfully impart to the reader about a doctor’s vulnerability. When I trained, we were told to suppress our emotions and have clinical detachment. You can’t survive if you get too involved with your patients. And of course there is truth to that. It can get to the point where you lose yourself in someone else’s situation and it’s not healthy for you or them. But I think we’re in a renaissance of saying, “Okay, maybe you can’t be too empathetic, but it’s okay to be vulnerable.” We’re not superheroes. I still struggle with that.

I had a lot of older folks in my practice who were huggers. Early on, I was always like taking a step backwards as they were lunging toward hugging me. But then my nurse, in her wisdom, said, “You know, they need to hug you.” That’s how they’re acknowledging your value to them and what you mean to them. I’ve done a lot of thinking about vulnerability and physicians. What is the optimum amount of being vulnerable? In the old days, if we had a very difficult situation, we would just go in our office, close the door, and have a cry. I mean, we would weep. We would never think of demonstrating our sorrow in front of a patient or something. And I think that comes from the training back then. But as you know, there’s no template for being a good physician. And it’s kind of a learning experience for all of us.

DH: It has something to do with how to be a good human being.

TM: Yes, exactly. And I think the whole point of medical humanities, as I alluded to earlier, is about that soul, that spirit of medicine, which is not just about how we practice medicine and interact with other people, but also with being self-aware of who we are, what we can offer, what our strengths and our weaknesses are, and trying to embrace both. Understanding that there are things we don’t do as well as we’d like, things we could do better. But again, it goes to that understanding of our vulnerability and accentuating our strengths and trying to minimize our weaknesses, while understanding that all human beings are some unequal combination of both.

DH: Switching gears a little, as a retired family physician, what’s your view of medicine today? Is it pessimistic? Is it optimistic? Do you think we’re moving in the right direction or are things worse than they were back when you were going through it?

TM: I think medicine is a completely different enterprise now than it used to be. I remember the joy of holding a paper chart and writing my notes with a pen on paper. I think my notes were adequate or good, but they had just the right amount of information that was necessary. There was nothing superfluous when you had to write your own note because you had a certain amount of time that you wanted to get the note done in. And I understand the utility of the electronic health record and its portability. But I think there’s something about looking a person in the eyes, giving them 100% attention, and even though back in the day I used to scribble down some notes so I wouldn’t forget certain things, 90% to 95% was just one-on-one. And then after the visit, I would write the note in the chart, or later I had the ability to dictate a note, which was great. So I think the electronic health record, on balance, has been a detriment to the practice of medicine.

Also, the amount of time you spend with a patient has become very restricted. For example, I was very cognizant of people waiting in the waiting room. Back at my peak, I was seeing 30 to 35 people a day in the office. In addition, I admitted and cared for all my patients requiring hospitalization. The local hospital that we have, 50 beds, still does not have a hospitalist. And so you had to make rounds. You took care of people in the ICU. You saw your patients in the ER. It was a full-service experience for patients and the physician. It was hard. There’s no question. But there was something very gratifying about being able to do all those things right and being a small-town doctor. People just called you at home. We had one rule in the house, and the rule was that as a family — we had three children — we would all have dinner together and that one hour was just for us. What happened with the kids during the day at school and their activities and how work for my wife went. And I just remember laughing and laughing, but we carved out that time. But otherwise, it was all hands on deck all the time. SoI think medicine is different. Whether it’s better or worse, I don’t know.

I really do feel sad that we’ve become such a technological profession. You hear students saying, “Well, what’s the point of trying to listen to a murmur? We’ll just get an echocardiogram.” Back in the day, you relied on your clinical acumen and you formulated your differential diagnosis. And then you thought, “well, what is the most likely diagnosis?” And then you would do testing to support that diagnosis or refute it and move on. And now I feel it’s like people immediately get tested.

We used to have to listen to people. You probably have the same experience. I think all medical students do. You have some wise professor that says 90%, 80%, 85% of the time, the patient will tell you exactly what’s wrong. You just have to listen to them. You may have to nudge them a little bit to give you more information. But now I don’t know that we’re giving people enough time to tell us what is really wrong with them before we kind of take the leap to do these tests. And I think, unfortunately, patients are getting so comfortable with the notion of getting tests that that is all they want. I’ve had patients that say, “Well, can we do a CAT scan? Can we do this or that?” Of course we can do it, but tests come with risks. False positives, incidentalomas, radiation exposure in some cases and so on. So on balance I’m going to say, although it was not Nirvana or Eden back in the day, and we had our own issues and problems, it seemed closer to the aim of healing.

DH: Well said. What would you like to see MedHum do in the coming months and years?

TM: I think what I would like to see is just MedHum continue on its trajectory and grow to become a go-to resource for people interested in medical humanities or just people that are curious about medicine in general. I would like to see the website continue to grow and become a valued resource where people, if they’re interested in the depiction of medicine in the humanities and in the culture of medicine, they can read articles, they can listen to podcasts. There’s a lot of interesting material on the website already. I think as we grow and expand and include more contributors, the possibilities are limitless for what it can become.

DH: That was great. I had a good time. We should do this again.

TM: Me too. We’ll look forward to talking again.

Posts Written by Dr. Tony Miksanek

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Do No Harm: Stories of Life, Death, and Brain Surgery by Henry Marsh 

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The End of Days by Bernard MacLaverty 

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DAVID HSU: Why do you think medical humanities is important in today’s world?

STEVEN FIELD: I think it’s important because it’s a way of getting back to the heart and soul of clinical medicine, or at least, I hope it is. I was in practice for 35 years, and I think that medicine has moved towards a different concept than the concept that I grew up in professionally. I like the idea of well-rounded physicians. I think people should know things other than just medicine. Reading novels gives you an appreciation for the way that people interact, not necessarily just in medical illness, but also outside of illness, which then you can extrapolate back [from].

But I admit I’m biased. I was a liberal arts major in college. I started in English, and my degree is in history. What was your area?

I did a double major in biology and history. Most of my classes were 20th Century American history.

My senior essay was on Puritan and colonial town planning theorems in New England and the middle Atlantic states, nothing I’ve used ever since. And my junior essay was on witchcraft.

Witchcraft is a little bit closer to medicine.

True. I actually was looking at the sociopolitical ramifications of witchcraft in Tudor-Stuart England and France under Richelieu. So, while it wasn’t wars and treaties history, more social/cultural history, it was history nonetheless.

I come from that liberal arts background, so I have a leaning towards medical humanities. I think it’s really helpful to ground people who are in the field, and I think it’s an often incredibly helpful way to relate to patients on so many levels. You might not be amazed, but many people would be, to know how many times the doctor-patient relationship is either forged or strengthened over a shared interest, literary or otherwise. I don’t mean sharing at the same time, but something that somebody else has read, or a movie, or a play you’ve seen. The reason I think medical humanities has assumed more importance is because the period of time that doctors have to spend with patients in the encounter has gotten smaller and smaller. There’s this thing that in some offices a new patient visit should take 20 minutes and follow-ups should take seven minutes. I retired from practice in 2011, and I would never be able to function under this system now, because I’m a schmoozer, you know? I like to talk to patients.

And you’re a gastroenterologist, is that right?

I am a gastroenterologist, although I had a large proportion of my practice in general internal medicine. Along the way, I also got a certificate in psychodynamic psychotherapy, which I found very useful, not only in the practice of medicine — mind and body are linked, of course — but in two other places as well. I had a small psychotherapy practice, in addition to my medical practice, so it clearly helped there. And I work in clinical ethics now, and understanding family dynamics is really helpful when you are dealing with patients and families in conflict. I think that psychiatry especially — not so much psychopharmacology, but psychotherapy — is kind of the closest to medical humanities, in some ways.

That’s interesting. I read your bio and it talked about dynamic psychotherapy, but I didn’t know what that meant. I didn’t realize it refers to inter-family dynamics.

Psychodynamic refers to treatment basically anchored in Freudian theory. So it’s not cognitive behavioral therapy. It’s the old standard, you know? You talk about childhood, ego, super ego, all that stuff.

So you see that medical appointments are getting shorter and shorter, and there’s more and more use of technology, and like you’ve mentioned, the humanities could be a bit of a buffer against that. It would help us navigate that world. Can you be a bit more specific on how you see that relationship unfolding?

Just to be clear, it’s not really a buffer against technology per se, but rather, against the depersonalization of medicine that can result from increased technology and decreased time. I’ll tell you the truth. It’s tough for me to answer that question, because I’ve never functioned in this 20-minute visit environment, right? When I was last in practice, a new patient got an hour and a follow-up got a half an hour. That’s much harder to do today. So there was time to talk to them and sort of develop the relationship – the medical side as well as the interpersonal side.

I think that it’s a good question. I think medical humanities could have two different functions. It hopefully heightens physician sensitivity to the human condition, to what patients are feeling and going through. In addition, I believe that for many physicians it acts as a counterweight to the immersion in medicine and illness, and as a source of personal fulfillment. Of course, that second sense may not be true for everyone; people find fulfillment in life in many different ways.

Let’s talk a bit more about the tie-in with psychiatry because I’m really curious about this. You reviewed the book The Third Reich of Dreams. How do dreams and the subconscious relate to medicine?

Freudian theory has gotten a bit of a bad name over the years, and psychiatry has moved very much to psychopharmacology. But psychiatrists classically loved to analyze dreams, because a dream brings in not only what the immediate concerns are, but also all the things that you draw on in your background. So it’s a very interesting way to approach things. For some people. Others don’t dream, or they dream, but they don’t remember them.

And it’s not only dreams. I noticed many times in patient interactions in my medical practice, that people re-enact things from their childhood or early adulthood. Their mother didn’t love them, so they choose somebody who reminds them of their mother, because they think they’re going to fix it this time. That’s almost a cliche. But that sort of stuff happens a lot, and I think that’s really interesting.

I had sort of a subspecialty in inflammatory bowel disease, so a lot of Crohn’s and ulcerative colitis patients. And I had one young woman, not so young actually, who had very severe Crohn’s, and she wasn’t getting that much better. And I talked to her about putting her in the hospital and putting her on TPN (total parenteral nutrition) because she was losing so much weight, and she didn’t want to do that. And she said “I don’t want to go to the hospital. I’ll try, Dr Field. I’ll really try, because I’m telling you, I really don’t want to gain any more weight.” And then she said “I mean, I don’t want to lose any more weight.” And I just said, ”Well, that’s an interesting slip, right? What do you think that’s about?” And she paused, then she burst into tears. And then I got the whole story about her difficult relationship with her mother, and how her mother was always making nasty comments about her weight. This was all coming out; there was a whole huge story behind it. And there’s stories behind lots of people’s stuff, and I’m not saying her Crohn’s was due to that, not at all, but there are lots of patients who have this kind of thing in their background. You know, life story and narrative, and so that’s what I think Medical Humanities is about, the human narrative behind the patient and their illness. I think having some knowledge and experience, some background, that isn’t just medical but also is humanities-oriented can sometimes give you common ground with patients, or even just make you curious about them. All it took was saying, “that’s an interesting slip. What do you think about that?” And it was a whole other side of this patient. Medicine is about people, and people are not just their disease. They’re people with a disease. Sometimes you have to have that sort of global look. And I think the interaction with the humanities is helpful in that regard.

What’s your Gestalt sense of the relationship between our mental well-being and physical illness?

I have always felt that the two things influence each other, and it’s not necessarily a sharp line between them. I would certainly not go so far as to say that my patient’s experience with her mother caused her Crohn’s disease, but I think psychological states can certainly exacerbate symptoms. I mean, the gut, specifically, has its own extensive immune system. It has its own nervous system, responsive to inputs from the central nervous system, and the enteric nervous and immune systems are interrelated. And much of that has been well worked out, there’s this whole field of neurogastroenterology that deals with this.

So I think that’s recognized, clearly, that one’s psychological state can influence illness and sometimes worsen symptomatology. Many times I’ve seen “intractable” symptoms abate when a patient retires from a stressful job, for example. So I think stress has a very significant role in the production of symptomatology and perhaps in the pathophysiology, actually, in certain cases.

How about today? In 2025, it seems like the world of medicine is facing a lot of stress. There’s a lot of vaccine skepticism. People are antagonistic towards public health. COVID certainly didn’t help things. How do you see medical humanities being part of that landscape?

Well, I imagine that landscape is prominent in the United States in large part related to political developments.

I guess I’m influenced by my subscriptions to the New York Times, but Canada is the same. I mean, I feel like before COVID there were a few people that were skeptical of vaccines, but now everyone seems entitled to have an opinion about it and voice it readily. I’ve worked with mostly Chinese patients. I hear this from them all the time, but they’re generally a little bit more “toe the line” regarding what their government says they should do. But I think now people are more emboldened with some of these ideas.

One thing about the United States is that, as opposed to most of the northern European countries and Canada, the US has a very strong libertarian streak. Individuals. “Don’t tell me what to do.” We rebelled against England, settled the frontier, dispossessing everybody who was there in the process. So there’s this real idea of the right to be left alone. So the question is: does that feed the problem?

The reason I have a little question with the role of the humanities is when you look at people who are involved in medical humanities — and this may only be my impression — I think they tend to sort of cluster closer to the left. And more of them are the people who will take vaccines and things like that. But I don’t know that. I wish there were a larger role for medical humanities in smoothing over these political differences and polarization. I think it would be nice if there were. For example, people talk about book clubs and reading groups. I’m a big believer in them, and they’re very popular, but most of the time, book clubs are self-assorting entities, right? Go with people in your club. The people in your reading group are often people who probably feel somewhat the way you do. It would be great to have reading groups with multiple viewpoints represented, as long as their discussions don’t devolve into chaos. These days, that’s a real risk. A big problem in America is that we’re becoming more and more polarized.

The trick is to bridge that divide somehow.

A big problem is that in so many cases, there is no trust. When everyone has their own facts, it’s the end of the idea of an absolute truth. Each side has its own truth. You have your facts; I have my facts.

I guess, as a historian, we are taught gradually that truth is kind of like that, right? One thing I remember learning in university is this idea that facts can be a subjective experience for people.

That’s true. The subjective interpretation will vary and can color the way history is written. And history is written by the victors, right? But facts are facts.

Given that that’s the landscape, what would you like to see MedHum evolve into over time?

Well, It was set up originally as a Medical Humanities Resource. That is, it originally came out of the Literature, Arts and Medicine database, right? So I still like to look at it as a resource. But I’d also like it to be a place where people go for well-written and insightful writing, commenting on aspects of the interface of health, wellness, current events, and literature and the arts. I think it should exist, as the mission statement indicates, at the nexus of medicine and the wider society, and comment on the interactions there. MedHum is brand new, so you have to see how it develops. I’d like it to be a source of good writing, good insightful and perhaps incisive commentary.

I was going to ask you about what you thought about the relationship of technology in medicine. A lot of the time when people talk about humanities and the liberal arts education — like history and English majors — one thing they don’t spend a lot of time on is cutting edge technology. A lot of these studies go back to things that occurred decades ago. But medical humanities is a little bit different, because it wrestles with these things that are happening right now. There’s a certain degree of urgency. And in medicine, new things are coming out every couple of years. As soon as AI comes out, we adopt it for some medical purpose. So we’re constantly trying to push that boundary. Where do you see that going as a person with a humanities background?

One of the things about all the technology is it’s very important to ask the questions about what you’re going to do with the technology. Where it’s going to go, how we can protect things like privacy and vulnerable people. I mean, bioethics has a lot to say about technology like AI and big data and privacy. It also has a huge amount to say about other technologies, like reproductive technologies, transplantation, and the like. But I think you’re talking about two different things. The time-honored majors in university, English and history, the number of people who are electing to major in these is dropping, while the number of people majoring in the STEM fields is rising. So that’s a process that’s happening, and it’s going to continue to happen, just because that’s where things are going. I think that a role for medical humanities in that mix is that of humanizing the processes which technology facilitates and also asking important questions about technology. In terms of AI, since you brought it up, what does it mean to be human? As the machines get better and better, and given that we often use cognition as an indicator of life — ‘sentient beings” — where then is the line? When you can get psychotherapy from a chat bot what does it actually say about interpersonal interaction, what does it actually mean to interact as a human being? Where does this logically end up? No one knows. So I think thinking and writing from a humanities point of view about technology brings a new perspective to the subject. It may be the best way to contextualize our progress and at the same time create guardrails where needed. Because they will be needed.

And there’s just been so much in the news about the use of AI to write fiction. To write college essays. When a chatbot is creating, can it be said to have an imagination? To employ metaphor, or allegory, or irony? And ultimately, how will technology limit our adeptness with basic human interaction? There’s lots of dystopian fiction written about this kind of thing.

If AI continues to evolve and people start to use it as doctors, where do you see a medical encounter in the future? What does it turn into? What does it look like?

There are studies that show that AI is comparable to or better than most radiologists looking for breast lesions. And there’s lots and lots of ways that AI can help in medicine, including increasing diagnostic accuracy across a number of areas, screening potential drug candidates, personalizing treatment plans, and the like. Interestingly, there is a suggestion that the use of AI-assisted technology may lead to a subtle loss of the physician’s native ability to evaluate, what is referred to as “de-skilling.” An interesting and sobering thought. Overall, though, I think AI can be a huge help in medicine, with its potential only beginning to be appreciated. But I would hope that AI would never replace doctors, because AI can’t empathize, can’t engage in a meaningful relationship with a patient, even if it can create the words. I, for one, would always know that it was a machine interacting with me, and that would color my response.

For diagnostic purposes, it will weigh the relative possibilities, but some of that diagnostic process — especially in terms of general medicine — is intuition. There are some areas where AI is less helpful. AI can screen data and suggest diagnoses and investigations, but sometimes patients would come in, and the doctor will think “something just doesn’t smell right here. There’s something not hanging together about this” or “this is somebody who doesn’t normally complain, and now they’re complaining, and that’s different. What’s going on here now?” AI may, may evolve to be able to catch up to that too, because my understanding is that it’s just becoming better and better. But it’s certainly a useful adjunct. I know in our medical school curriculum there’s a whole session on how to engage with AI and how to use it. And I think that’s good. It’s a tool, and it’s really helpful.

One more change of gears. How did you go from the liberal arts background into medical school? Was there a transition, or was that something you always wanted to do? Or was the liberal arts a bit of a detour? How did that evolve?

I always wanted to be a doctor, but I also always knew that I wasn’t going to spend four years at a college that was very strong in liberal arts and spend it doing biology or some other concentration in the sciences. There were just too many other things that I liked. I had a bunch of AP credits coming out of high school, so I didn’t have to take many science courses — and I didn’t — but I took enough, and the rest of the time it was English, history and other humanities courses. I thought that was important before I went to medical school. And I generally think that it’s important.

Where did you get that idea as a 17 or 18-year-old?

Probably simply from the fact that I was too interested in so many things. I was fascinated by medicine, but I always read a lot, and I was much more attracted to humanities in college, knowing that I was going to go to medical school afterwards. I knew I’d be spending the rest of my professional life in medicine, so I wanted to explore non-medical areas in college.

When you went into medicine, did you think that you were leaving the humanities part behind, or did you always think the two would stay entwined?

I always thought the two would stay entwined. At one point I actually thought of doing psychiatry — as I said earlier, that always seemed to me to be the specialty most intertwined with the humanities — but I decided not to. But no, I didn’t leave the humanities behind.

One thing I’ve always appreciated about the United States is their undergraduate education is much more permissive of people pursuing other things and then going to medical school later. In other countries, like in Canada, undergraduate learning is very much more pre-defined. If you want to become a doctor, you have to do life science, and life science leads into medicine. It’s technically not written anywhere, but everyone does it this way, and I think you miss out on a lot of stuff that you could learn that might help you later, but in a more abstract way.

I think a four-year general undergraduate curriculum can certainly broaden your horizons. Medical school was four years of really hard work; College was the last time, at least for the next four years, that I could do something else in depth with the other side of my brain.

Or even if we just say those four years exist for themselves. It’s a great four years. It doesn’t matter if it affects you later, necessarily. We could die tomorrow. You enjoyed your college years. Let’s circle back. Why is medical humanities important in today’s world?

I feel like medical humanities is important because I just think it makes us broader and deeper and hopefully more empathic human beings. And that’s always a good thing, and I think patients benefit from that. I hear a lot of complaints from family and friends about medical care these days (because let’s face it, I’m at the age where my contemporaries all talk about their medical care) and often their biggest complaint is that the doctor’s visit was very short or they felt rushed. Unfortunately, a number of people are unhappy with the nature of doctor-patient interactions these days. But I don’t know that the humanities alone are going to make that better. So much of it is driven by insurance companies, reimbursements, and documentation needs — all things that are beyond our control.

Thank you very much for your time.

Web photo by Medhum.

Posts Written by Dr. Steven Field

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DAVID HSU: What do you think is the importance of medical humanities to you at this point? 

JACKIE DUFFIN: I think it is a very satisfying way of filling in the gaps that are generated by traditional medical training and medical experience. It invites reflection, and it invites growth, and it especially encourages criticism. And those things were certainly not there in my training. Therefore, it is comforting and inspiring, both of those things for me.  

When you say it that way, there’s a certain subversive quality to medical humanities. Am I catching your answer right?  

Yes, I guess that is exactly right. Subversiveness goes with the territory of what we do as historians as well. Everyone thinks that history is about the past, but the questions that we ask of the past are generated by the present and also the inherited wisdom that we have. And there has to be curiosity and a willingness to admit that the trajectory might not have been as straightforward as is sometimes pretended.  

How do you respond to the saying that basically history is written by the victors? 

That statement is also a reminder that what might be out there as the master narrative isn’t exactly the truth or isn’t exactly the whole story. And the losers will have their own story. And sometimes that’s worth exploring. Of course, my view of medical humanities is very much affected by the fact that I am a historian. And more than any other aspect of medical humanities … that’s what interests me the most. In fact, I don’t mind admitting that the medical humanities boom that we’ve witnessed in the last decade and a half or so has been a wonderful vehicle for enhancing the presence of history in medical schools​,​ and our visibility. I’m happy to hitch my wagon to it, but I don’t claim any expertise in all the other disciplines that participate.  

One of the things I think is useful for history with respect to ​present and ​future doctors is how history is a mirror image of the clinical process and the scientific process. And that’s something that I raise​d​ with my students all the time when I was teaching, that you begin with a question. As medical practitioners, you ​also ​have a question​;​ ​i​t is the chief complaint of the patient. What is wrong with me? Why do I feel this way? And as a doctor, you consult the patient, you explore the history, you do the physical examination, and then you touch base with the clinical wisdom that’s available to you through ​the medical ​literature. And you come up with a diagnosis, which ​​determines the direction of action. As a historian, you have the question​:​ where did this come from? Or why do we do this? Or what happened then? And with your question, you interrogate the past, looking at all of what has already been published, which is the equivalent of the medical literature, but also looking at things that have been ignored, like the stories of the losers, for example. And you come up with an interpretation. And that is a direct parallel with the ​process of ​diagnosis. You can push this even further to make an analogy with a scientific experiment where you have the hypothesis, the method, et cetera, and you come up with a conclusion. I think that demonstrating history as a discipline to healthcare professionals opens up their imaginations to seeing the practice of what they do is something that’s malleable, that’s anchored in time, that’s affected by culture and society. So, my role in the medical school was to do that. It was a privileged position. But I had no idea how successful I ever was. I have a sneaky suspicion that a lot of my faculty colleagues and maybe a large number of the students just thought I was there for comic relief and entertaining stories to be told in the meantime. That’s okay. I accept that if that gave me permission to weasel my way into the curriculum or introduce new ideas. 

Tell me a little bit about this medical humanities boom over the last 15 years. What’s going on?  

As you know, medical schools are evaluated. They’re accredited by committees. And things come along that are the flavor of the month. ​P​rior to the medical humanities boom, there was an ethics boom. Many medical schools didn’t have ethics, but they looked around and they thought, oh, we better get ethics because everyone has ethics. If they got ethics, it made them look ethical. That happened in the 90s. I saw that as a real problem for people teaching history of medicine. I got along great with our ethicist at Queen’s. It wasn’t her fault, but she was my biggest enemy. Because if the school had to devote some time to what they called ​“​soft science,​”​ they would rather have the ethicist than the historian because the ethicist got them brownie points on the accreditation. ​​ 

​​T​here was a time when the American Association for the History of Medicine was meeting in Chicago in May 2014. And we happened to be meeting at the same time as the Academy for Professionalism in Healthcare. So the brass of the American Association asked to have a meeting with their leaders to find out how they managed to convince all the medical schools they needed ethics and in particular succeeded in having questions about ethics education in the exit surveys. They did not really understand our problem. I think ethics had the media going for it and the power of a number of ​high-profile​ malpractice cases that had come along. ​It​ became obvious that patients wanted to make sure their doctors were legal and ethical, and ​t​he schools wanted to give the students tools to address these concepts. It became almost urgent. 

In fact, I did some Medline searches on this at the time. The number of articles addressing history of medicine basically tanked. And the number of articles addressing medical ethics soared. There was always an interest in medical ethics. It goes way back. Hippocrates even talks about this. And then there was codification in the 18th century. But what ​arose ​in the late 20th century was this concern that it should be transferred to the students as some kind of rubric that would help them in their future to ​educate them and help them ​behave ​ethically. ​And then that sort of plateaued and along came medical humanities. 

Accreditation saw ​​this as very good for student life. They saw it as very good for student education. If you could enhance the possibility of getting a positive accreditation of your medical school, then you would acknowledge that you should have something called medical humanities. But under that umbrella, there could be just about anything. And that’s the problem with it as a discipline. It doesn’t really have a single method. It embraces so many other sorts of​ fields​. That’s the beauty of it, but it’s also the confusion of it when it tries to make its way in a curriculum that is as rigid as a medical school structure. 

In Canada we now have a society for ​Medical Humanities, the Canadian Association for Health Humanities​. I’ve attended some of the meetings but the disappointing thing about it from my perspective is there’s almost never anything about history. 

I’m curious. If history is not emphasized as part of medical humanities what is? 

Presumably it’s ethics again and reactions to technology. I think ethics underpins a lot of it​,​ but medical ethics is a very distinct discipline​,​ as is history. We’re not the same thing. We respect each other but we’re very different. So medical humanities usually include, at the Canadian meetings at least, a lot of literature, of readings, both fiction and nonfiction. It includes the arts, music, poetry, visual imagery, trauma, drama, dance, etc. And often the papers in the meetings that I’ve attended are​ almost all​ about individual case studies​: ​e.g, “We tried this at our medical school​;​ and then we did an after​-​survey about whether it worked or not. Of course, our students loved it because it was fascinating​,​ and it wasn’t memorizing the elements in the periodic table. It was something that took them out of themselves.” Often medical students have other hobbies before they get to medical school, which are sadly neglected because there’s no time for anything else. And these activities provide an outlet for them to recover their previous selves and their identity.  

I think another agenda of ​Medical Humanities ​is to raise awareness of the differences between peoples — the difference between your patients, for example, and yourself, and to be prepared to tolerate it. So that’s a subliminal message of many of these things, causing you to see the world and other people in a different and more tolerant way. That’s basically what goes on in the medical humanities conferences. People get very excited about these opportunities, a drama presentation, a collect​ive​ reading, something that they might have done together, or artwork that medical students do based on their clinical learning and then having a show about it. That kind of thing gets reported. And then … it sort of sinks into an oblivion until the next meeting comes ​​​​along.  

So it sounds like the way you’re describing it, there’s a little bit of the study of history of medicine versus medical humanities. The two are not fully in sync in your mind.  

No, they’re not fully in sync in my mind, but I accept and welcome history being seen as part of ​ ​medical humanities. I think it’s an opportunity for us as historians to maintain our place and our credibility in medical schools.  

The presence of history in medical education has gone up and down over the centuries. There have been full-fledged chairs in History of Medicine. In a distant past, they went away​ and​ they came back. What is expected of it has probably also changed through time. But now, since it seems medical humanities is an easier way​ ​to open the door to medical schools, history can be part of it. I don’t know. It would be really interesting to find out if ethicists feel the same way as I do about it. I find that some medical humanities programs are peopled by or run by doctors who are so well-intentioned​–​ very, very well-intentioned​–​ but they really don’t have any expertise in anything but medicine. The best of them, obviously, are experienced clinicians who’ve had a lot of encounters and are thoughtful and reflective about those encounters. But there’s no method. It’s not a single discipline. It’s a quilt with a whole bunch of different patches in it.  

What do you think about medical humanities and maybe more specifically the history of medicine as a vehicle for the broader mass of people out there?  

I’ve written ​11 ​books and the most recent one to get published is this one. [She holds up a copy of ​Covid-19: A History​]. What I was doing was getting it down for everyone. It’s a history for everyone. It’s not aimed at medical students or doctors or anybody in particular. It’s aimed at Canadians basically, but it talks about the whole pandemic from a global perspective. What I want to do is remind people of the personal stories that go with the pandemic, about the dilemmas of decision-making and policy choices, about the scientific endeavors that are so easy to mock or make fun of. And ​clearly,​ I’m revealing my colors. I believe in vaccines. I believed in the public health measures. I point out in this book about the value of quarantine. When you don’t know what the pathogen is and you haven’t got a clue what the incubation time is because it’s a previously unknown pathogen, quarantine is not a stupid thing to do​,​ because you are waiting to find out how dangerous it ​might ​be and put some parameters around it. I think​–​ and again, I’m speaking only from a history perspective, not medical humanities in general​–​ I think it was important to unpack what was behind those decisions that many people got so angry about. And yet they were lifesaving decisions in many cases. Sometimes perhaps it was over the top, but it was because we didn’t know what we were confronting. 

During that book writing, I served as a volunteer contact tracer at the Kingston ​[Ontario] ​Public Health Unit. I had to phone up citizens all over our area and get them to quarantine because they’d been in contact with someone who had COVID. That was very eye-opening for me because I realized at what level you had to pitch why it was a good thing to do. And at the outset, when we didn’t know what the parameters were, we were telling people who’d been exposed to COVID to stay home for 14 days. Kingston was the only health unit to use volunteer contact tracers, but we worked really hard and Kingston had the best ​​outcomes of COVID cases in the country for a brief time. It didn’t last forever, but it was like a flagrant, on-the-spot demonstration of something that has been known for years, since at least 14^th-century plague.  

What do you make of that now that we’re in 2025 and people are so over this stuff now​,​ that​ ​there’s this feeling I get that people are saying we will never go into quarantine again? 

That’s why I wrote the book. Actually, I was invited to write it, and I had to think about whether I wanted to or not. One of the reasons I decided to write about it was that my thesis advisor, Mirko Grmek, wrote a history of AIDS right at the beginning of the pandemic. And I thought, well, I can’t write a history of COVID because it isn’t over and it may never be over. We may always have COVID. And then I remembered that Grmek had written that history of AIDS at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic. He set down where it came from. He studied the historical possibilities. He had the science too. I realized he was at the end of his life, and I’m at the end of my life. And I thought, OK, maybe this is what I need to do​,​ to accept the task of writing it as it is, right now. Now ​I’m very depressed​ by these negative attitudes. But I do hope that when the next pandemic comes-​-​and there will be another pandemic​,​ with a new pathogen that we haven’t seen before​,​ and there will be conspiracy theories about where it came from​–​ I hope that the public health agencies will remember that quarantine from 14^th-century plague worked really well​,​ and that’s what we need to do again if we don’t want to overwhelm our finite resources in hospitals and health care units to look after people. The more you implement those measures, the fewer people die. It makes a huge difference​,​ and you can actually see it. So the story is there. Whether or not it will be believed, whether or not the argument can convince the naysayers, I have no idea. All I did was set it down and hope.  

You have a historian hat, which is the critical, sometimes subversive side and then you also have the medical doctor establishment side, the scientific side. It gives you a unique lens to look at the COVID pandemic and the consequences that came afterwards.  

It’s been the story of my life. I worked in cancer care at the end of my career at Queen’s and patients would tell me really interesting things​.​ I loved talking to them and hearing what they thought about what was going on. And some of them held what I would think of as wacky ideas or they’d utter doctor​-​blaming ideas. Then the doctor in me would feel very defensive about their accusations of the mistakes or the neglect of my colleagues, even colleagues I’d never met. But when it comes to the history of medicine, I feel terribly responsible for the bad things that doctors may have done, even if it was not deliberate, but out of ignorance, because they didn’t know what was going to be discovered next​;​ or ​due to ​misplaced enthusiasm for something that turned out not to be as great as everybody thought it would be. And I’ve seen that with respect to certain drugs in my career. I’m old enough to remember thalidomide babies​;​ I was a child when that happened. But the impact of it was enormous​: ​what pills could do to us and how they might harm us. There’s a new biography out that I ​reviewed for ​Medhum of Francis Kelsey, the Canadian​-​born American health official who spared the United States from the damages of thalidomide. An amazing and courageous decision because there was great pressure on her to approve the drug and she didn’t. So we had the tragedy in Canada and they didn’t in the United States​,​ which was fascinating for me to learn at this stage of my life, because I remember being so horrified and ​thinking, ​how could doctors let us down? 

There are also other procedures that were once considered important to do that we have done away with, not because they shouldn’t ever have been used, but because something so much better came along. The most striking example of that that I remember are pneumoencephalograms. Pre-CT scans, if you thought there might be a space​-​occupying lesion in the brain, you put the patient under a sort of an anesthetic. You took out a modicum of CSF and injected the same volume of air. And then you strapped them to a chair and you ​​rotated them around, taking x-rays while the bubble of air moved all around the brain to see if there was a space​-​occupying lesion. It was brutal, painful, but it was the only way to find out if there was a space​-​occupying lesion in there. And of course, you could tell only if it was bulging on the surface of the brain. It took days for patients to recover with headache and vomiting. Every medical student in my class of​ ​1974 was required to go and witness one of these so that we would not order it frivolously. And in that same year, CAT scans were introduced and nobody would ever do a pneumoencephalogram again. Ever, ever, ever. But does that mean that all the doctors who were involved in ordering pneumoencephalograms or taking the x-rays were evildoers? I don’t think so. They were trying to help. They were trying to make a diagnosis. But it was excruciating.  

If you could fix medical education and its relationship to history, what would you want done?  

I’ve written about this for a long time. I was so lucky at Queen’s; I really was. They let me get away with a lot. From my hire in 1988 until I retired, I thought the best way to bring history into medical education was to infiltrate it. The historian has to be very tolerant and very flexible. But what you do is you introduce the history of whatever it is they’re studying at any given time. History of anatomy in anatomy if they’re doing the anatomy course. History of physiology in physiology. History of pathology (essentially is the history of disease) in pathology. The timing really is everything because it’s synergistic with what they’re learning at the same time.  

With that method, you are preceded by a guy in a white coat, and you’re followed by a guy in a white coat. It gives you credibility vicariously by the people who are around you. But it makes it seem relevant in a way that otherwise it ​wouldn’t be​. If you make ​it ​an optional, elective course, the students automatically know that it’s not important. So, I refused to teach electives when I got hired at Queens, which meant that I had to meet every department head to beg for time to do a history session. There were 25 departments at the time, and only three said yes. They were​–​ anatomy, pathology, and obstetrics; I’m forever grateful.  

Early on, faculty members of those departments would come to my inaugural class on the history of their discipline. I think they were slightly checking out how “nice” I would be to their field: the history of obstetrics, for example. But they approved the approach. The most willing departments were those units in the medical school with a lot of curriculum hours​,​ ​s​o they were able to feel generous. ​“​We will give her an hour.​”​ 

But one department head said to me, “I can’t do that. History, I love history. You’d be invited to give an ​after-dinner​ speech at our annual meeting. That would be really good. But we only have 80 hours in the curriculum. And if I gave you one of those hours, they might miss something important and kill somebody.”  

I said, “Oh, thank you​,​” ​a​nd I ​went​ back to my office feeling rejected. Only later did I think of the right reply, “If you don’t give me one of your 80 hours to make them skeptical about everything else you’re going to teach them in the other 79 hours, then they really might kill somebody.” That was the answer I should have said.  

It’s about the time constraint; you can’t offer an entire course. Medical students are not going to be historians. They’re going to be doctors. So what you want to do is sensitize them to the fact that what they see as knowledge now is something that has evolved through time, through human endeavor, something that is destined to change in the future. So history is a reminder of life-long learning. And if you time it right, then it is relevant and interesting. Not all students are going to like it, but they don’t all like pharmacology either. 

And the other thing that the medical school let me do, bless their hearts, is to grant my wish for one question on every exam.  

I remember this actually.  

It was a question of credibility; a way of forcing the medical school to commit to the idea that history was important.  

All right. To wrap up, we’ll get back to Medhum. what would you like to see us do in the months and years to come? 

I’m really a special interest voter on this because I was for 25 years involved with the Literature Arts and Medicine Database. And I contributed hundreds of annotations to that database​. ​I hope MedHum is a place where people who want to use literature–mostly literature is what I think of, but there​ are ​other things there, ​for example ​film​ reviews​–in a way that will deepen their understanding of a situation, or for enhancing education, or for whatever purpose, because that’s how the database was used, that it will be there, accessible to people who want those things.  

​​​​So for me, I get to go there when I feel like it. I get to browse. I get to pick around. I already knew some of the people and from our meetings, I’ve gotten to know new ones. I think you, people of your vintage​,​ should be deciding its purpose, in terms of determining the direction and the flavor of this entity, which hopefully will have a big reach and get to the people who need to see i​​t​. You​ ​​have a better sense. You’re closer to the users. I’m not trying to be gloomy about it. I just know that it’s entirely possible that it needs to go someplace that I can’t even imagine. 

Dr. Jacalyn Duffin was the Hannah Chair of the History of Medicine at Queen’s University from 1988 to 2017. She was also a practising hematologist. In 2020, she was awarded the Order of Canada. 

More importantly, she’s one of my favorite people in the world. Medical school wouldn’t have been the same without her gentle encouragement and unending enthusiasm. Dr. Duffin, thanks for everything. 

Web image by Medhum.org

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Apollo On Call

In this episode of Apollo on Call, Dave is joined by Luki Danukarjanto to discuss Atul Gawande’s book on end-of-life care, as well as relate it to their aging parents and their own experience getting older. They also examine the medical perspective to the situation is well-being or survival the goal of end-of-life care?

Check out Dave’s Substack for more! https://davidmhsu.substack.com/

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For this Apollo on Call x W5H Book Club episode, Dave and Luki read Other Rivers: A Chinese Education by Peter Hessler. The book focuses on the quirks and challenges in the education system the author witnessed as a visiting professor in China. At the end, Dave and Luki reflect on an entire year of reading books about China, and how they feel at the end of this journey.

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DAVID HSU: What are you up to these days? What are you working on?

JACK COULEHAN: In terms of creativity, I’m working on a new collection of poems that I’m editing now. I’m also the book review editor of The Pharos magazine, and that takes up an unexpectedly large amount of time.

DAVID HSU: Do you practice medicine at all anymore?

JACK COULEHAN: No, actually, I retired about 12 years ago now, but I do still teach medical students as a volunteer. It’s a class that I began back when I started at Stony Brook in 1991. It’s called Medicine in Society, and it’s a first-year seminar course that deals with human, social, and interpersonal issues in medicine. We use a lot of literature and film in that and so I’m still a group leader. We also have a master’s degree program in medical humanities, and I teach a course in that. So I still keep my hand a little bit in teaching.

DAVID HSU: Given that you’re doing all this work in the humanities, what do you think about the relationship between medicine and the humanities?

JACK COULEHAN: You know, that’s a surprisingly difficult question for me, because I’ve always had this kind of love/hate relationship with the term medical humanities, because I think it doesn’t quite capture the problem or the issues that we’re trying to address and what we do. In a lot of my work, I tend to cite a piece that Rafael Campo wrote in JAMA in 2005, entitled “The Medical Humanities, For Lack of a Better Term.”  What I’ve really always thought is that what we’re trying to do is to teach students and ourselves, really, to become more reflective and more thoughtful…[Campo] used the terms reconnection, renewal, and meaning. . I think we’re not necessarily encouraged in our profession to become aware of our own needs, to become reflective, thoughtful, to become focused on the personhood of patients and so on. And so I think, through discussion, through examples in literature, film, etc., we can really try to address these issues. I guess the term medical humanities is fine as a placeholder, but I wish there was a better term for it. But, aside from reflecting on the name itself, those are the things I think we’re trying to address in medical humanities. 

When I started in this business, pretty long ago, I was thinking about [medical humanities] mostly in terms of becoming a better doctor by improving one’s empathic skills and reflecting on the patient as a person. But as time has gone on, I’ve become more aware that I think it’s really something that makes you a better person and also more able to cope with the stresses and the challenges of modern medicine. So, I think it works both ways.

DAVID HSU: What are your criticisms of the way medicine is practiced now, since people aren’t doing all this [reconnection, renewal, and meaning]?

JACK COULEHAN:  First of all, I think medicine has to be understood in our current overall culture of increasing subspecialization and focusing on narrower and narrower fields [of practice], using more and more technological instruments, tools, and machines. Also, medicine is more and more controlled by larger interests that are not necessarily oriented towards the primary values of medicine.  There are virtually no constraints on the use of technology, the focus is entirely on disease, on narrow perspectives on disease.  

What I’m saying is that all this detracts from the ability necessary to see the patient in terms other than as an object that has a disease or a person who has a specific problem that needs to be addressed.

Just to give my personal examples, when you get to be 81 years old, as I am, you have a lot of opportunities to experience being a patient. I saw a cardiologist a couple of weeks ago who is an older cardiologist, and he was what I would call an ideal physician. He does interventional cardiology, he’s a professor, well-published, and yet his approach, I would consider to be very therapeutic–very positive, trusting and good eye contact. He wasn’t looking at the computer. He was just a genuine person, genuinely interested. I’ve also gone to a urologist who was just the reverse. Equally specialized in the same medical system, but one who was all about the particular issue, the particular organ, and the particular thing that’s happening to that organ.

It’s possible, you know, when you start talking about the kind of values and the kind of stresses that modern physicians are under, the first response you get is that, “Oh, yeah, that’s great. That’s what we should do.”  But you know, we only have 15 minutes [and] we have to deal with the EMR, etc. But that belies the fact that there are physicians out there who are very good at actual doctoring and others who aren’t, and I think that’s because, well, let’s say, look at those two things on a spectrum…I would say that there is the opportunity, even in today’s world, to help students keep their belief, which most of them have, I think, when they begin, that doctoring is really interested in persons. And I think we could increase the percentage of physicians who feel that way and practice that way.

DAVID HSU: I’m curious because you mentioned that you’re 81. You’ve been around the medical system for decades. How has the system changed from when you first started in it until now? Is it getting worse, or has it always been like this?

JACK COULEHAN: Well, that’s tough. I definitely think it’s worse, but I also think it’s romanticism, you know, to look back and say, “Oh the good old days.” 

I graduated from medical school in 1969 and graduated from my residency and fellowship in 1975. Those were the days when I was learning to take a history. Taking a history–that’s another phrase that I dislike. But we had a little black book, that had 100 or 140 questions to ask in it. There was no concept of medical interviewing, nor the  teaching of it. I had the feeling that a lot of the values of good doctoring were kind of implicit and not necessarily taught in those days.

And so we’ve gone through a whole phase of learning that the medical interview is a therapeutic tool, and now I think we pay a lot of lip service [to it], but I don’t know that we necessarily carry it from its place in the curriculum to its place in the clinic or the hospital.

But there’s no question that it’s gotten worse [although] the technological advances are just so incredible. I remember at some point, as a student, you have this idea that the CT scan will give the answer, or the lab result will give the answer. The patient’s story is secondary. And I remember some instructors saying, no, no, wait a minute, you should know 80% of the time what the answer is before you even request the test. The test is not meant to be, the be-all, end-all of everything, but, definitely, that is the case now. Even within practice, every advancement that happens in technology kind of nudges us closer to thinking of the computer as a solution for everything.

Let’s say, one patient comes in with chest pain or nausea. I think the tendency now is to focus on those symptoms, to think of what disease might cause them, and to do various tests, rather than sitting down with the patient and trying to understand what their situation is.

DAVID HSU: You mentioned this earlier, and I wanted to follow up on this little comment you made about how the practice of humanities and writing has a self-care component to it, and that as you’ve practiced it more, it’s helped you handle stress and different challenges. Can you elaborate a bit about this?

JACK COULEHAN: As a high school, college, and even a medical student, I had this inexplicable urge to write poetry, which I did. It’s pretty juvenile. But anyhow, I did it. Then of course, I gave it up because I was a doctor. I was practicing, I was doing research, etc. And in my mid-40s, I was reaching, I think, what you might call burnout. That might be a little too dramatic, but I felt that there was something missing in my life, in my career, and I happened to have a patient who was a professor of poetry at the University of Pittsburgh, where I was teaching at the time. And one thing led to another, and she encouraged me to start writing again. And I did, and I found very quickly that by writing about…my experiences in medicine, I was able to…work through them and understand my reactions better, and so I think that poetry is a reflective practice that in a sense provides occasion for you to grapple with experiences, issues that have been troubling you, or that on the other hand have been very happy. It can work both ways.

Getting back to medical humanities, I think what we’re trying to do in medical humanities is to stimulate that kind of process in young physicians or young clinicians, whether it’s through poetry, through writing journals, through just meeting in small groups…that kind of thing…and to use not only personal experiences, but literature, poetry, film, etc. as stimuli for that.

DAVID HSU: Let’s wrap up with what you would like to see medhum.org do? How would you like to see it grow in the months and years to come? What type of topics or articles do you want us to tackle? 

JACK COULEHAN: I like the concept of being provocative. I’d like to encourage people to come in through material that’s kind of leading edge. I’d like to see people have conversations, comments and so on.

DAVID HSU: Thank you, Jack for participating in “Meet the MedHum Editors.”   It’s been a pleasure to speak with you.

Written by Jack Coulehan on Medhum.org (View All)

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Children Who Remember Former Lives 

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The Anatomist by Frederico Andahazi

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Rethinking Medications by Jerry Avorn

20.01.2026 512

The Word Is an Instrument of Healing 

16.12.2025 570

Stuck By Heidi J. Larson 

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Apollo On Call

It’s well known that in the 1980s and 90s, following China’s implementation of the One-Child Policy, a surplus of orphaned Chinese girls became available for adoption. Many were adopted by well intending American households. What’s less well known is that this surplus of orphans eventually created market conditions for the trafficking of Chinese girls, at least some of whom were forcibly removed from their homes.

Barbara Demick explores the consequences of China’s One-Child Policy, its relationship to the trafficking of Chinese babies, and the overall picture of women’s reproductive rights in modern China in Daughters of the Bamboo Grove. 

Join Luki Danukarjanto and me on this month’s Apollo On Call, as we discuss Barbara Demick’s fascinating look at the process of having babies in China.

Web image by Medhum.org

In 2019, a prominent obstetrician/gynaecologist in Toronto was found guilty of administering intravaginal medications to his obstetrics patients for the purposes of inducing labour without consent. He was subsequently dismissed from his position at the hospital and his career ended. The story was covered in detail in an exposé published in Toronto Life magazine. 

The details of the case are lurid. In the modern age, most obstetricians do group call. Gone are the days when an expectant mother would have both her prenatal care and delivery done by the same physician. Newborn babies are wont to arrive in the world at any given moment, and the traditional obstetrician who drops everything they are doing to attend these deliveries, often in the middle of the night and often with a full day of office work the next day, is all but extinct. Obstetricians now share call duties with a team of physicians. Now, when you sign up with a certain obstetrician, there’s no guarantee that that specific doctor will be the one to deliver your baby, only that someone from their group will be doing the delivery. 

In Ontario, obstetricians are paid more for delivering babies on weekends than they are on weekdays. It’s a nice little reward for doctors who usually work long and unpredictable hours. But in this one hospital, the obstetrics department began to notice that one of their staff had a propensity for babies being delivered predominantly on weekends and evenings and began tracking the matter. 

In time, they discovered that this doctor was inserting tablets of misoprostol into the vaginas of late term pregnant patients in order to induce labour on specific days that were to his advantage, often when the date in question was a weekend. Misoprostol has the ability to induce contractions and is often used in medical abortions. It is not considered to be a medication safe to use in pregnant women to induce labour on command. Needless to say, the patients did not give informed consent for the procedure, nor were they offered the option to decline.The doctor in question was a prominent member of Toronto’s Chinese Canadian community. He had a reputation for being a doctor to the rich and chic. Famous Hong Kong celebrities flew to Canada to have their babies delivered by him and my own patients flocked to him in droves. 

In Toronto, getting a referral to a community obstetrician of choice to deliver your baby is like trying to get your child into an elite private school–no doubt, these actions are often being done by the same parents, just a few years apart. Obstetricians have a set number of expectant mothers they can carry for any given month and once that quota is exceeded, they can’t accept any more patients. In those years when I first started working as a family physician, Chinese immigrant women in my community knew to race to our office as soon as they suspected they were pregnant, so as to get into the front of this doctor’s queue. They were then told by the obstetrician’s office that they were expected to pay a three-hundred-dollar administrative fee in order to guarantee this doctor would be present for the delivery, which they gladly paid.^⁠1 

At the time, it seemed reasonable. Three hundred dollars and your doctor would buck the modern trends of group call and shared team duties and promise to come in on his night off to personally deliver your baby. It all seemed legitimate and altruistic, a call back to a simpler time. If only. 

When the story broke, there was the expected furor in the local medical community. Certainly, the salacious nature of the case, the prominence of the doctor in question, the #MeToo movement which was also taking place around this time, gave the story its pull. 

In the local Chinese community, the story had buzz as well. Toronto, with its large Chinese-speaking population, has several Chinese daily newspapers and the story made headlines in the local Chinese newspapers and filtered its way through all of us. It felt like everyone’s mother had heard of this doctor; he was that well-known. 

As I spoke to patients and friends and colleagues, I discovered so many people around me had had their children delivered by this doctor in the preceding decades. As they reflected on their obstetrics journeys, the stories were all the same. Yes, it was true, many of their babies had happened to arrive on a weekend. Yes, the labour started soon after an assessment, right on schedule and with what had seemed like fortuitous timing at the time. Now, in retrospect, it all seemed fishy and possibly sinister. 

But one thing that I noticed was that this doctor’s actions were met with largely a collective sigh of indifference by the Chinese Canadian community. The lack of outrage most people had towards the story felt odd. Remember, this story was occurring near the height of the #MeToo movement. The idea of a doctor administering intravaginal medications without consent should have, in the West, been seen on the level of battery. At the very least, I expected people to think of it as a violation of a woman’s body. But in the Chinese community, amongst the population that knew this doctor the best, the reaction was muted. Most of his patients that I encountered shrugged off the story. When the subject came up, they were quick to point out to me that he was an outstanding doctor who had helped many people and were disappointed to hear that the doctor was no longer practising. 

In China, women’s reproductive rights is an issue with a thorny history, especially over the last several decades, most of which I was oblivious to until I started working with my own patients. 

The most blatant and obvious reproductive rights issue is China’s One-Child Policy, which ran from 1979 to 2015. During these years, families in China were limited to having only one child, except in special circumstances. The One-Child Policy was formulated in response to the Chinese government’s fear of overpopulation. 

In my naive understanding of China, I was taught the official narrative, that people who had more than one child were subject to higher rates of taxation, and it was the punitive toll of this taxation that kept parents in line. 

But the truth was more complex. What were people’s expectations about birth control? What happened when people didn’t agree with the government’s policy? What happened to people who had an extra child on purpose? What happened if they had a child accidentally?  

When I started working, I soon noticed that all middle-aged women from mainland China had intrauterine contraceptive devices implanted in their uterus. Mostly, they had had these devices placed after delivering a baby years earlier. In many cases, these IUCDs had been present in these patients’ uterus for so long that many of them often forgot to mention it to me, only informing me about the presence of these devices sometimes when they were in their late fifties or early sixties, long after the device had ceased to perform any useful function. Often times, we’d discover that these devices were present during a routine ultrasound, and the patient would remember that yes, they had been wearing an IUCD for so long that they had simply forgotten about it–it had simply become a part of them. This wasn’t an entirely benign situation. The longer an IUCD remained in, the greater the chance it would slowly embed into the tissue of the uterus. Albeit rarely, there are case reports of it rupturing the uterus of women after decades being left in. 

Even after I realized that so many of my patients were wearing IUCDs, I still didn’t fully understand what this meant. I had in my mind envisioned the Western model of women’s reproductive care, that the mother had informed her obstetrician in China at some point after the delivery that she would have an IUCD inserted because yes, she was certain she didn’t want to have another child for a few years. I envisioned a long conversation where a medical professional gave the patient a series of options about contraceptive care. Did the patient want an IUCD? Or maybe to try the birth control pill? Or did the patient want to use natural family planning methods? It was only gradually that it dawned on me, that these were conversations we only had in the West, not conversations women had in China. They weren’t given the option of having an IUCD inserted. They were simply told what to do, or had it done unto them. 

But my women patients didn’t seem bothered by this. They never expressed outrage at having an IUCD. It was again, the collective shrug of indifference. It wasn’t that different than being told that they had to pay taxes. Or have a mandatory retirement age. It was just another curious aspect of life in modern China.  

I couldn’t envision what it meant for a society to exist where a government somewhere could decree that all women would be forced to have a copper intrauterine device placed in their uterus upon having a baby, whether they liked it or not, and that it would remain in place indefinitely. It seemed even more preposterous that almost all the decisions said government made were made by men–the Chinese Communist Party is well known for being almost exclusively male at its highest levels. 

The actual IUCDs that the patients wear bear mentioning also. In North America, IUCD devices like the Copper-T, or Mirena, are little metal or plastic objects that are inserted into the uterus, with a trailing piece of string that dangles out of the uterus. The device itself prevents either ovulation or implantation of the embryo, depending on the IUCD in question. The little piece of string is designed to allow the device to be removed easily in a doctor’s office, where a doctor can tug on the string with a pair of forceps and remove the device. 

In China, the IUCD device is inserted without a string, making it deliberately more difficult for people to remove, even with proper medical equipment. 

As a result, many of my patients, after decades of wearing the IUCD, found that the device could not be easily removed. Canadian-trained gynaecologists, used to the simplicity of tugging on a piece of string and changing the IUCD every four or five years as per the manufacturer’s instructions, couldn’t always remove the Chinese IUCDs. Sometimes, it was because the Canadian-trained gynaecologists didn’t have the practice grabbing IUCD’s without the string. At other times, it was because the device had been put in place so long ago that it had shifted position and could no longer easily be removed. Some of my patients had to go under general anesthesia to have the device removed. Others got on airplanes and flew back to China to get the device removed there by the experts. All of this, I gradually realized, was part of the long-term consequences driven by China’s One-Child Policy. 

For a more detailed discussion of the One-Child Policy, see Barbara Demick’s Daughters of the Bamboo Grove. Demick, an L.A. Times journalist, chronicles her two-decade odyssey to help reunite an American-raised Chinese adoptee named Esther with her birth family in China. Esther was abducted as a two-year-old and then trafficked to an orphanage during China’s international adoption industry heyday in the early 1990s. As it turns out, she has a twin sister, Shuangjie, who stayed with her birth family and the story provides a fascinating case study of the entire issue of women’s reproductive rights and the issue of international adoption. 

In the book, Demick lays out China’s One-Child Policy and its ramifications on the grassroots level, where neighbourhoods were policed by local government family planning offices. These units were akin to local mafioso-like organizations, gangs of thugs who were given carte blanche by the local governments to cajole, threaten, and beat people into towing the party line. And, to top it off, they weren’t above kidnapping the children who violated the government’s restrictions on family planning. 

When it comes to the One-Child Policy, there is a tendency for us as Westerners to discuss it as tomfoolery–a straightforward story of failed macro-economic policy, that the One-Child Policy was short-sighted and hastened China’s likely imminent economic decline. And while this narrative may be accurate, it only scratches the surface. The reality of what happened to people on a personal level is much more complicated. 

As Demick describes it, in the nineties, the One-Child Policy essentially created the market conditions for international adoption and the trafficking of kidnapped children. It isn’t a huge leap of logic to understand that the One-Child Policy begets well-meaning people from the West wanting to adopt babies from China and being willing to pay good money to do so. Once money is involved, human traffickers realize that if they can get good money for babies, then all they need to do is to get more and more babies. Now, cue the kidnappings and forced baby abductions and we get to where we were. It’s a frightening cycle, which only illustrates yet again how economic policy can trickle down to the level of the individual in thousand-fold ways. 

There’s another aspect to Chinese family planning worth pointing out here, which is the desire to have more male children. The Chinese culture is by no means alone in this. Historically, many groups around the world prized boys over girls. In China, the reasons for this have long been established. Traditionally, Chinese culture has long placed an emphasis on families having male heirs. According to Chinese culture, family lineages pass through sons, and daughters are raised but then handed over to other families when they marry, unable to continue lineages of their own. At its most basic level, this meant that your son could look after you in your old age but your daughter couldn’t. 

Growing up as an immigrant in Canada, I accepted that the preference for boys over girls was probably one of those older, primitive world views that Chinese people held in the past, but, like binding women’s feet, surely not something anyone still believed in modern times. After all, I had grown up in a North America where women voted, moms were entering the work force en masse, and dual-income households were becoming more and more the norm. I took it for granted that modern people everywhere would value boys and girls equally. 

And while I had read in books about the gender imbalance in China, about how the One-Child Policy had created a nation with a surplus of boys over girls, I took it as just another example of primitive, traditional Chinese thinking, something from the old world, not something that I would have to deal with directly as a doctor in Canada. 

So imagine my surprise, when in my early years of practice, patients started approaching me, forcing me to confront some of these gender issues head on. 

One patient, an older woman who was already the mother of multiple girls, discovered that she was pregnant again. At the eighteen-to-twenty-week ultrasound, to her disappointment, she discovered that she was having a girl, again. A few weeks later, despondent, she came to my office, asking for a referral for an abortion. She explained to me that she wasn’t primitive or old-fashioned. Indeed, she wasn’t against having girls per say. But she already had so many that it seemed fair that she really didn’t want another one. 

By this point in the pregnancy, she was already precariously close to the twenty-four-week cutoff for late term abortions. In Canada, abortions past twenty-four weeks aren’t allowed. Would it be possible for me to change her estimated date of confinement to so that she could squeeze in just within the 24 week window?^⁠2 I refused to do this, and she ended up returning to the clinic multiple times in the next several weeks, each time suggesting that, telling us in fact, that she had remembered her last menstrual period date wrong. And that if we used her revised calculation, her current pregnancy actually fit in the twenty-four-week window. Needless to say, I did not acquiesce and eventually this patient drifted out of my practice. I never did find out what happened to her and her family of girls. 

Fortunately, not all the stories are so odd. Some patients from China have told me that they were pleasantly surprised to discover that in Canada, at the eighteen-week ultrasound, doctors could reveal the gender of their future children to them if they wished. Finally, they could prepare for the upcoming birth of their child knowing what colour to paint the child’s bedroom and what colour clothes to buy in advance. In China, I was told, this information was kept strictly confidential because the government was afraid that people would go looking for abortions if they found they were pregnant with a girl. 

Of course, now the situation in China is flipped. After decades of the One-Child Policy, China suddenly finds itself facing an economic slowdown, the prospect of an aging population and a more educated working class that wants no part of having more children. More and more young people in China are choosing not to even marry, not to mention start families. 

In a twist of dramatic irony, those same family planning units that harassed women for decades into having less children, have suddenly been tasked with the job of encouraging increased reproductive rates. 

What will the Chinese government do when it’s time to raise its low birth rate? What will it do when it realizes it can’t convince its citizens to get pregnant more readily by offering tax incentives? After all I’ve seen and experienced, it’s something I don’t even want to think about but could be just around the corner. 

I’ve long struggled to understand this concept of just how powerful the Chinese government is and how much impact it is able to have on its citizenry. Because my grandparents fled China after the Civil War in 1949 and my parents grew up in Taiwan under martial law, I’ve always had a bird’s-eye view of how Chinese politics can affect the lives of everyday people. I have an aunt who I’ve never met because she didn’t make it out of China in 1949 and became separated from our family–she wouldn’t see my father, her brother, for almost forty years. In recent years, I’ve read countless books about government reforms in China. I saw how China handled Covid-19 in the news. I’ve visited China and seen the gleaming new buildings and multi-lane superhighways humming with electric vehicles. But none of it has spoken to me as loudly as this collective shrug of indifference that I’ve encountered from my patients when it comes to women’s reproductive rights. 

Sometimes, I wonder what the psychic toll of a person doing something they don’t really want to do might be. What if they’re forced to get a tattoo that they don’t want? Or forced to cut their hair in a certain way? 

What if they’re forced into a marriage they don’t want? Or forced to have a baby they don’t want? Or forced to give the baby away against their will? 

They don’t even have the option of agreeing to any of these things. What if these actions are just done to them whether they like it or not? 

But then what about this: what is the psychic toll if they’re to wear an IUCD for the next thirty years, whether they would like to or not? 

What’s the toll if they’re given intravaginal misoprostol so that their baby can be born on an auspicious day? 

What’s the toll if they’re given intravaginal misoprostol so that an obstetrician can deliver the baby on a day convenient for him? 

If all of these decisions are simply made for a person by an aggressive husband, we’d call it abuse and everyone would be screaming bloody murder. But if these decisions are decreed by an even higher authority, an all-powerful political party or an all-seeing authoritarian government, then what? Would everyone just accept it as just another cultural fact of life, like using chopsticks instead of a fork? It seems like they would. 

To hear further discussion about Barbara Demick’s Daughters of the Bamboo Grove, have a listen to my discussion about it on Apollo On Call, the podcast of medhum.org. 

1. In Canada, health care is publicly funded but doctors can charge fees for services not covered by the public health care system. This can take the form of administrative fees as well as fees for certain medical and surgical procedures that the government health insurance doesn’t cover. 
2. The estimated date of confinement is the projected due date for a pregnant mother. It can be calculated as 40 weeks from the date of the pregnant woman’s last menstrual period, or estimated using prenatal ultrasounds. 

Web Image by Medhum.org and Fred Moon 

Additional Chapters from A Chinese City Doctor’s Notebook

When Your Body Isn’t Yours 

01.12.26 520

From Tigers to Otaku

09.16.25 1328

The Happiest Couple

07.28.25 1108

The Things We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Dying 

05.13.25 1690

A few years ago, a patient of mine, a young man, was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. In the middle of university, his grades suddenly nosedived, and he was found talking incoherently by his roommates, who called the police.

Not long thereafter, his mother, distraught, came to see me in the office. She told me the story of their lives. How she had struggled to raise him on her own in North America while her husband lived overseas and how she had pushed them to attend a renowned public school in the area. Now she wondered if she was to blame for the whole thing. Had she done something wrong? Had she pushed them too hard? Was this all her fault?

I’ve been practising as a family physician for Chinese Canadian immigrant patients for almost two decades, and my practice runs the gamut from newborns a few days old right on through to adulthood. Not only that, I grew up as a second generation Chinese Canadian immigrant, the son of two Chinese immigrants from Taiwan. And now I’m a parent myself, raising the third generation of Chinese Canadian immigrants. After all this, I feel like I should know a thing or two about Chinese immigrant parenting but the truth isn’t so simple. It’s probably closer to truth to say that Chinese immigrant parenting is something that I have lived through and have many strange and conflicted feelings about.

There is definitely a playbook that Chinese Canadian immigrant parents subscribe to. The playbook is an extension of the Chinese immigrant workhorse mentality. When you come to a country with nothing but hope and work ethic, you somehow create an ethos built around filial piety, discipline, and a strong sense of duty. This parenting model, tried, tested and true, reads something like this:

• A heavy emphasis on academics and education, with emphasis placed especially on mathematics and sciences.
• A high level of parental expectations.
• Combining the above two points creates the expectation that when it comes to your academics, you will outwork your lazy, North American counterparts
• A carefully curated collection of after school activities, always including some attempt at playing a classical music instrument. Even here, you will outwork your lazy, North American counterparts.
• Going to university. Once in university, you will once again, outwork your lazy, North American counterparts.
• Landing a well-paying job, preferably as a professional in the big three (doctor, lawyer, engineer). If not, then business. In all these fields, you will, once again, outwork your lazy, North American counterparts.

The playbook may sound draconian, but in many ways, it works. Asian immigrant children are known for succeeding academically. They make it into top university programs in large numbers, so much so that some people were worried that certain elite schools were starting to modify admission criteria to decrease Asian students’ enrollment.

Asian Americans disproportionately land jobs in medicine, law and engineering and as adults, do disproportionately well financially. All of this conveniently fits into the model minority myth. The myth says that all Asians are hardworking and reliable. They do well in school, they don’t complain, and they work hard in their upwardly mobile careers.

This heavy-handed approach to parenting gained parlance in popular culture with the publication of Amy Chua’s infamous memoir, “the Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother.”

Published In 2011, the book was described as a parenting memoir by Yale Law professor Amy Chua and became an international best-seller. In the book, Chua described her parenting journey, as she demanded, insisted, and pushed her children to academic and musical success. Her older daughter ends up performing at Carnegie Hall and eventually, in the years after the book was published, both daughters graduated from Harvard University.

I read the book a few years after it was published. From all the press clippings and popular discourse about the book, I had expected that the book to present a bullet proof justification for tiger parenting.  And indeed, the mother in the book was certainly recognizable to me. She was an amalgam of many of the Chinese immigrant parents I had known growing up, including some aspects of my own.

The book does in fact, describe many classic tropes of the typical Asian American parenting regimen. The disproportionate emphasis placed on learning classical music instruments, the high strung, pushy helicopter parent, the unrelenting expectation of academic success. Chua described booking family vacations only at hotels where a piano was available to be rented.

But what I did not expect was that this was only the setup of the book. In the second half of the book, Chua’s defiant younger daughter, Lulu, decides enough is enough and refuses to give in to her mother’s insistence on playing the violin. In time, she reduces her violin practice time to a measly thirty minutes a day and takes up that most un-Asian of pursuits, sports in the form of competitive tennis, and Chua concludes that the best form of parenting is neither something entirely tiger, but something in the middle, a cross between east and west.

In a culture where few people read but everyone likes to give an opinion, the book’s denouement was lost on most people. Amy Chua and the term “tiger mother” became an avatar for all the aspects of Asian American parenting that were deplorable, but few people chose to remember Chua’s tongue in cheek look at her own parenting.

Instead, the reaction of most westerners to the “tiger mother” phenomenon was one of disbelief, something along the lines of “those crazy Asian parents and their crazy parenting ideas.” But what I found most interesting was Asian people’s response to Chua’s book. Most Asian parents did not see Chua’s style of parenting as harmful or strange. Extreme, maybe, but in principle, no different from any other Asians. In my family, my cousins and I read the book and decided that our parents weren’t really tiger enough. Yes, we had been forced to play the piano and the violin. But not for six hours. Six hours! Can you believe it? Now that is crazy.

As much as I’d like to be critical of Asian American parenting, I must say that in my time with my Chinese Canadian patients, I’ve seen plenty of success stories.

I’ve had patients who find time to play both the piano and the violin while commuting an hour each day to the most elite merit based private schools in the city.

I’ve seen children who are being shuttled between all manner of competitive swimming, gymnastics and ice hockey lessons. Often, just hearing these children’s schedules is enough to make me dizzy but the families somehow make it work.

Sometimes, I’m tempted to ask the parents if it’s possible that they could just let their foot off the pedal and let their kids be kids. That’s the western upbringing in me coming out. But then I remember how in elementary school, one day my teacher asked us to tell the class what after school activities each of us was involved in. This was the late eighties, when over-parenting wasn’t really a thing yet, and I remember how my classmates howled with laughter as I rattled off all the strange extra-curricular activities my parents would be toting me to that summer: piano lessons, swimming lessons, tennis lessons, Chinese school and a cooking class. Most of my classmates were lucky to have one activity to do. I had five. At the time, I laughed along with them, finding the whole thing funny. But now, decades later, when it comes to parenting, I wonder who really gets the last laugh.

At the opposite end of the achievement spectrum, is the Otaku child. The term Otaku is Japanese and was initially a reference to Japanese youths who were obsessed with computers and popular culture. The classic example was the nerdy Japanese boy, imbibing huge quantities of Japanese anime and manga while sitting in their rooms playing video games all day. This was a mostly Asian phenomenon, rarely talked about in the west.^⁠1  In the last several years though, especially since the COVID pandemic, I’ve watched as a growing number of my adolescent patients stopped attending school. I’d find out about these cases from exasperated parents, who would come to the office, often alone but sometimes accompanied by their taciturn child, seeking out a medical solution for what was going on.  

The cases had some similar themes, though none was exactly the same as the others. In most of the cases, the child did not have a strong relationship with their parents. Often they had retreated into an online world on the internet. Sometimes, online gaming was involved, but sometimes the children insisted they just surfed the internet, watching videos or engaging with social media.

Generally speaking, the children weren’t terrible students in the traditional sense of children who were really struggling academically. They were mostly strong students. Several of them were even identified as gifted.

Poor sleep habits were often an issue for these children. They’d often be on their computers into the wee hours of the morning, and then unable to wake up for class, if they bothered to attend at all. Eventually, they’d stop attending classes altogether.

The children tended to spend much of their time in their rooms, rarely interacting with the household, often not joining their families even for meals. As the frustration of the parents grew, so too would the hostilities in the household. The parents would try to break the internet addiction by withholding computer hardware or turning off the WIFI. Such escalations would be met with confrontations, leading to overturned television sets or even suicidal gestures.

The ages of the children varied. Some were as old as high school. But some were as young as middle school.

In all cases, the commonality was that the parents were stuck. They didn’t know how to proceed. And as their family physician, I didn’t know either.

When I went to medical school, school absence was not a medical diagnosis. Neither was video game addiction. But the medical and psychiatric world I was trained in did not have cell phones or social media or Facebook or TikTok. What it had was a few narrow definitions for similar behaviours: conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, and substance abuse disorders. The children in these school avoidance cases fit some of these definitions, but never wholly.

I’ve watched as parents tried everything they could to find a solution for this issue within a medical system that doesn’t really know what to do with these cases. Beleaguered parents bringing their children to see me is only the first step. I’ve sent these patients to see psychiatrists and psychotherapists and paediatricians with mixed results. There isn’t much these specialists can do with an uncommunicative child who doesn’t want to be there. I’ve seen patients call the justice of the peace to issue a community treatment order so that their own child gets ordered by the courts to go to a hospital for an assessment by a psychiatrist. I’ve seen patients drag their child to the emergency room for school absence and read consult notes by well-meaning ER doctors who try their best to persuade the child to resume going to school. I’ve even been called by well-intentioned police officers, who want me to do something about the child they’ve just been dealing with, because they have no idea what they should be doing either.

Of course, school absence isn’t something that’s new or wholly unique to Chinese immigrants. I still remember my first week of high school back in 1992, watching as a classmate of mine was dropped off by his mother at the front door, and as soon as the car disappeared down the road, he turned around and headed away from the school building.

But that was high school and for whatever reason, in those days, we never thought of those kids as being “medical cases.” If you wanted to blow off classes and spend your day smoking cigarettes just off the school grounds, that was your choice. It wasn’t something you dragged your children to see a doctor about.

In fact, the “high-school dropout” has always been a known character trope, around for probably as long as organized education has existed. But there’s something especially jarring when seeing these cases of high school dropouts play out against the backdrop of tiger parenting and the model minority myth. And there’s something even more visceral to it when the issue starts to appear in middle school aged children.

I wish I could say that all of these stories of school avoidance end well. Some of them do: after a few years of feuding with their parents, the child grows up, and some go back to school. But for others, the jury is still out. I’m still waiting to see what happens.

So what does it all mean? How can well-intentioned Chinese Canadian immigrant parenting, produce such a broad spectrum of results? Super successful overachievers on the one hand, and Otaku adolescents who refuse to leave their rooms and are on suicide watch on the other?

I don’t have an answer, except to say that both of these groups of children are products of the same parenting paradigm. And just like when my patients ask me if they are to blame for their children’s mental illness, there is no real answer. There’s no way to definitively connect a line between the Asian parenting model and the types of children it produces.

But just as we can draw a line between pushy, tiger parenting and academic success, we probably can also draw a similar line between pushy, tiger parenting and Otaku children and social withdrawal. It’s easy for the Asian parenting model to claim its successes, but it’s time for the Asian parenting model to also accept some of the damage it has wrought onto its children.

Ultimately, most of my paediatric patients go through to university. The majority are in the typical model minority fields: engineering, computers, medical school and law school. 

But occasionally I’ll meet one who is studying something a bit more off the beaten path: fashion, or design, or cinema or something like that. They may be taking degrees in those programs, or they’ve pivoted after university and are making their way far off the traditional, beaten path. I’ll look at them, I’ll know that in some small way, they’ve broken out of the paradigm. I know they’re putting their parents through agony, but for what it’s worth, I’m proud of them.

1. I remember a lecture in medical school talking about the cultural basis of diseases. Certain diseases were common in the West but almost unheard of in Asia-the example of eating disorders was given. For the opposite example of diseases common in the East but rare in the West, the example given was the Japanese Otaku child.
Web image created by Medhum.org

Photo of the Hsu family in the 80s provided by Dave

Additional Chapters from A Chinese City Doctor’s Notebook

When Your Body Isn’t Yours 

01.12.26 520

From Tigers to Otaku

09.16.25 1328

The Happiest Couple

07.28.25 1108

The Things We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Dying 

05.13.25 1690

One Patient, Two Systems 

02.24.25 2322

Apollo On Call

This month on Apollo On Call, I sit down once again with our pop culture expert, Dr. Stuart Harman, to discuss our impressions at the completion of season 1 of HBO Max’s medical drama, The PITT. Some of you may remember that Stu and I did a discussion about The PITT a few months back, shortly after the show premiered. At that time, we had only watched about half of the episodes. Now, having completed the entire first season of the show, we are ready to discuss the entire season of the show, with spoilers. 

So, if you still haven’t seen The PITT and you’re the type that doesn’t like to have plot developments spoiled, stop right here, go back and watch the show before you listen. For everybody else, enjoy the show! 

Web image by John Johnson from HBO Pressroom